South East Branch
Meeting Report 3rd. December 2007
Back in our usual meeting venue the December meeting, as always, featured our Branch AGM. The enticement of Festive Fayre after the meeting always appears to ensure an excellent turnout of members for this important meeting. This year we were saddened by the sudden loss of out Branch Treasurer a few months ago. However another Treasurer was to hand and he was duly elected to the post with acclaim. No contentious matters delayed the conclusion of the meeting. After all the usual formalities had been observed the house adjourned to consume the excellent sausage rolls and mince pies graciously provided by the ladies of the Stouting W. I. Matters then turned to the Tramways of the Eastern Bloc, a slide presentation by Mike Jackson of Dover, who has traveled extensively in this area. The majority of the images were taken in the early years after the fall of Communism when many of the older locally built cars were still in service. Many systems then received second hand vehicles from Western donor countries such as Germany, Switzerland and Austria and some of these were still in their original liveries and advertising regalia. Finally some of the more advanced countries began to rebuild their systems and purchase new ultra modern streamlined vehicles. Of particular interest was the rebuilding of the Sarajevo system immediately after the cease-fire. As usual Mike presented his story with his immaculate collection of slides appreciated by all whether tram enthusiast or not.
Meeting Report 5th. November 2007
In our temporary meeting venue a large number of members welcomed local branch member Mike Bunn to talk about the other side of French Railways away from the glamour of the TGVs. Aided by his own superb digital images Mike took us on a tour from North to South of some or the Regional Railways of France. Starting at Dunkirk many were surprised to learn that even with state of the art railcars how few are the services between Dunkirk, Calais and even Boulogne and how often these services leave Calais Frethun just two minutes before a Eurostar stops there. As we were guided through other regions it was enlightening to see just how run down and neglected many of the lesser lines of France have become and yet still maintain some sort of a service with either very old or very new rolling stock. Endemic appears to be the local politics but also the power of the Unions with a number of almost unbelievable levels of over manning at wayside stations with perhaps one or two trains a day. In some areas intending passengers do not know until they arrive at the station whether they are going to have a train ride or a bus ride. One was left wondering how the British media would round on the DfT if our regional lines were left to decay to the levels shown by Mike and it was easy to see how these lines have been starved of funds to help finance the much more glamorous and politically acceptable TGVs. To conclude Mike showed many shots around Paris suburban lines comparing the commuter lines of Paris fifty plus years ago with the present day system including some of the major engineering undertaken to provide to-day’s network. A most enjoyable and illuminating evening.
Meeting Report 1st. October 2007
The branch was delighted to welcome David Soggee who came to Ashford to give his presentation on the Isle of Wight in the 50s and 60s. David started his talk by discussing the means of getting to the island with a delightful set of shots of the various immediate post war steamers and subsequently diesel ferries which plied between the mainland and the island. This was followed by a fully illustrated tour of all the island lines, their trains, their infrastructure and their traffic. The gradual reduction in the branches and their services was covered in detail together with some delightful vintage shots of the road transport that took over from the railways. As David had worked on the electrification plans and installation the latter period and the start up of the electric services was shown in detail. The end result was a wonderful diorama of a railway system now gone forever illustrated by a superb set of colour slides every one of which looked as though it had been taken only yesterday.
Meeting Report 3rd. September 2007
The branch welcomed Mrs. Louise Mackay, Marketing Manager of the Mid Hants Railway Co Ltd. to its September meeting to hear what was involved in “selling” a preserved railway to the public at large. Louise joined the Mid Hants in 2002 and was appointed Marketing Manager in 2004 and her first task was to carry out a market analyses using a 300 sample questionaire. This produced some interesting results. 75% of visitors come by car although there is an end on connection at Alton used by only 10%. The other 15% come by service bus, coach parties, bicycle and on foot. 80% start their visit at Alresford and 20% at Alton. 40% admitted an interest in steam, 12% claimed a heritage interest and the balance came for a day out. Many come on a recommendation and claim they will return a second time. Louise has a marketing budget of £100.000-per annum and this will rise to £1660.000 by 2010. This is spent in many ways such as the printing and distribution of 300.000 plus timetable leaflets for each season. Funds are also spent on customer service training, in particular the phone lines and money is also been spent on promoting the Exhibition Room at Ropley and the new Goods Shed facility at Alresford. This years visitor numbers are holding up very well in comparison to some nearby competing attractions however Louise feels that the days of Thomas are numbered and work needs to be done on developing an alternative childrens’ attraction. Louise concluded her presentation by defining the marketing mix used to promote the railway and in addition to leaflets this involves production of other literature, participation in exhibitions, the company website, the volunteers website, and the promotion of the new e-newsletter which already has over 1000 subscribers. Corporate days out, filming, which can bring in a lot of money but is very disruptive, relationships with near neighbours and the local councils and developing promotional partnerships also feature in her work load. At the close of the evening members became aware from the presentation that a preservation railway in to-days’ world is a major tourist attraction. To survive it has to be marketed and promoted in many ways to draw in visitor numbers on a scale that will support the costs involved in running, maintaining and developing the railway.
Meeting Report 6th. August 2007
Long time branch member Graham Smith presented a nostalgic look at the Southern in the 50s and 60s. Graham has been a career railwayman commencing in 1959 and retiring on the run up to privatisation in 1993. In his various management roles Graham always ensured that he carried a camera. The presentation began with a look at some of the very early Southern Region literature and of great interest were the handouts extolling the delights of the new electrified stock such as the VEPS, CEPS and CIGS. Our tour started at the London termini with, amongst others, shots of the old hotel and office block at Cannon Street and the London Bridge signal box during the rebuilding in the 60s. Shots of a double decker, a Black 5 at Hither Green and a Watford DC set on a tour of the Southern electrified lines ensured that nobody went to sleep. Next came the long forgotten ThamesLink service at Sevenoaks, then on to Tonbridge, Paddock Wood and the lovely wooden station building at Pluckley still in use to this day. Other examples of wooden station buildings still use were shown. Ashford Works was covered and the Hastings line with diesels and then the opening day of the electrification. There followed a shot at Dover Western Docks of the Night Ferry in daylight. Was it running that late? No this was a daylight trip arranged for the benefit of the press. The first half of the evening concluded with a look at some long gone branches that are now but a memory. The second half of the evening provided a look at the Central Division, the old Gatwick Express, the Brighton Line and Horsted Keynes with a 2-BIL in the platform. Then a Newhaven boat train, a T9 on Brighton shed and ending up with a look at the wonderful gas lit booking hall at Tunbridge Wells West. The evening concluded with at trip down the South Western as far as Tavistock and then finally back to where we began with a shot of the then new Charing Cross with a Class 465 in Connex livery. An evening of pure nostalgia created with personal memories and a wonderful collection of slides
Meeting Report 2nd. July 2007
Career railway man Colin Fisher came to Ashford to share his life and times on the GNER with us and very illuminating it proved to be. Having worked with WAGN and GNER previously as a driver and with Railtrack as a SPADS investigator he now works out of KX as a Traction Inspector. The presentation began with an outline of the business philosophy of James Sherwood as applied to GNER where customer service came first over all other requirements. He outlined how and why the franchise is where it is to day from the beginnings in 1997 and the re-negotiation in 2006. Staff hopes are high that the imminent award will be to the group including GNER. The traction used by GNER during the franchise was reviewed in detail from Class 89s, 90s, 91s, Eurostars, the 67 Thunderbirds and even the humble 08s at Bounds Green and Craigentinny. Not forgetting the HSTs which Colin considers the best train in the fleet. After dealing with the upgrade of the 91s which achieved a massive reduction in the casualty rate. The upgrade of the HST fleet was covered in detail with a history of the engines used on GNER power cars ending up with the new MTU units. The upgrade also includes a completely new cab interior. Views of the old and the new showing how driver ergonomics have progressed in the last 30 years. After explaining how drivers are scheduled showing what is all in a day’s work the route to becoming a GNER driver was explained together with what was now expected of a driver on salaries way beyond what was achievable in BR days. Colin concluded by showing the new simulators that have started to be installed at 4 locations to cover Class 91s and HSTs. So concluded a fascinating evening on our modern railway scene.
Meeting Report 4th. June 2007
We welcomed back fellow member Peter Gray from Torquay for another of his superb slide shows which this time took us from Waterloo down the old Southern mainline to the West Country calling in on many branches along the way. Many long gone steam scenes of the 50s and early 60s brought back memories for many of those present. Many of the major events of the period were covered including last day trips and RCTS railtours such as The Solent with the two USA 0-6-0 tanks, The last days of the S&D were also covered together with the Swanage branch before closure. Moving on further west Peter reminded us that stalled railtours are nothing new recalling a famous event at Maiden Newton. Moving further west we saw 6400 Class Panniers on the Yeovil Shuttles, an A4 Kingfisher at Sidmouth Junction. A 1366 Class OC Pannier 1369 on Totnes Shed and the graceful sight of a T9 No. 120 at Padstow brought to a close a truly nostalgic evening. A very generous word of thanks was given by Tony Endersby and heartily approved in the usual way.
Meeting Report 15th. May 2007
Although delayed by the vagaries of the calendar an exceptional turn out of members and visitors were present at Ashford to hear local historian and branch member Bob Ratcliffe talk about “The Chatham” in the 50s. His presentation was supported by images from a number of well known local photographers of the past including Ransome-Wallis, Arthur Wells and Dick Riley together with many archive pictures from his own collection. Bob is a long time resident of Rochester and his area in the 40s and 50s encompassed Strood in the west to Rainham in the east. The favourite locospotting location was Blue Boar Lane overbridge which gave an excellant view of the main line but also the goings on at Chatham Goods depot, so called, although it was actually at Rochester. After covering the historical aspects of the area Bob went on to recall the classes of locomotives that passed through the area and the trains they worked. A public footpath gave a very good view of Gillingham Shed, eventually 73D. The arrival of the West Countrys, then the Mickey Mouses in 1951, the transfer of the M7s to work the Herne Bay – Faversham flood shuttles followed by the B1s drafted in when the WCs were withdrawn because of a broken axle were covered. Industrials were not left out and the shipping enthusiasts were given some glimpses of long gone vessels on the Medway. September 1954 saw the famous RCTS Invicta Special rail tour which wound its way around most of Kent using a number of spur lines now long lifted including that at Canterbury over which it was the last working. Completer closures in the area were not common in the 50s with the Gravesend West branch being the notable exception only for part of it to be rebuilt and reopened again as part of CTRL1. Diesels and electrics began to appear and the Night Ferry usually double headed by a West Country and an L1 class 4-4-0 appeared with Southern diesel electric no.10203 which worked both the Night Ferry and the Golden Arrow as a double turn for one week. In 1956 the Standard 5s appeared and 1956 was also remembered as the year when the Schools were again painted green instead of mixed traffic black. Finally in the late 50s 84XXXs began to appear and lasted until electrification to the coast was completed. Bob finished a memorable evening appropriately with the 17.53 to Dover leaving Victoria, the last steam hauled service on the last day of steam However in true fashion the very last steam was the LCGB Invicta Tour of February 1962. The very appreciative vote of thanks was given by Rodney Lissenden to round off a memorable evening.
Meeting Report 5th. February 2007
Our new chairman, Keith Mapley – this was only his second meeting – reviewed the month past on 5th February:
- “Tangmere” had put up a good performance at Folkestone on the “Golden Arrow”
- The brief career of the Class 442 “Wessex Electrics” had come to an end
- Two outdoor trips had been organised, the first to Mangapps Farm on June 3rd and the second, jointly with the Ashford branch of the KESR, to Le P'tit train de la Haute Somme which runs between Froissy, Cappy and Dompierre.
We then moved on to the evening’s main event. The second instalment of the story of Peter Groom’s trainspotting days in London – or “More London Steam on Shed” as it was entitled. Peter made the point at the beginning that if the same old joke was heard during this presentation as in the previous, then the audience was to shout out! He also noted that you were a very inferior person indeed if you were to have carried your “ABCs” with you on a gricing expedition in the late 50s or early 60s – these were to be kept at home in pristine condition and only used for recording purposes! We had left his previous expedition at Old Oak Common, where he visited with the RCTS. The majority, however, departed by swarming up a bank, passing through a hole in the fence and turning left onto the canal bank. Moving on through the points of the compass brought us to Willesden, where our first picture was of “Jinty” 47482. In 1959, these engines were to be seen all over the place on transfer freights from Devons Road. This one was one of the later batch which could be identified – as our speaker said – by the hole for the key! 40043 – a Fowler 2-6-2T was seen next. These, apparently, “didn’t boil water very well” and were not a roaring success; Stanier’s evolution, seen in the form of 40157, were not a dramatic improvement – they were underboilered too. Some eight-coupleds followed – a “Duck 8” and 8Fs – Peter’s penchant for rivet counting showed through, there being the Stanier variety with his tender design, another with Fowler tender and a third with flat-sided mixed parentage tender. Hughes, Stanier and Ivatt (double-chimneyed) moguls were next on the agenda, our speaker noting that these were rare in London and that “normal people never went to Stoke”. The latter type – Doodlebugs – were once all at 1D - Devons Road – shed. Next were a variety of Black 5s, some Caprotti-fitted with the high running plate, others with similar valve-gear and low running plate, others just plain; then a series of “Jubilees”. One – 45722 – had a one-off 4000 gallon tender with four nuts at the top which held a water pipe inside the coal space. More rivet counting! There were 28 of this class of loco in the Scottish Region, these being maintained at St. Rollox, they could be easily identified as they retained the smaller Fowler tender, which really wasn’t a good fit with this type of locomotive. However, you did get more for your money at this works – engines repainted there always had larger numerals. Then there was 45735, the first Jubilee to carry the 2A boiler, which was the high-point of British boiler design.Finishing off at Willesden, there was a rebuilt Royal Scot, an unrebuilt Patriot and then a rebuilt version. These were followed by Britannias, some with handholds in the deflectors and others with hand rails – 80% of the class were at 1A at this time – the handrail and deflector modifications following an accident on the WR. It was said that the handrails had obscured the driver’s view of a signal, allowing the loco to run off the road at the end of a loop. There were also some “real” Pacifics here – the Coronations – after Camden closed, and these were illustrated by “City of Chester” and “City of Coventry”. Moving across to the east now, we saw E4 62788 at Stratford. Peter said that this depot had a different flavour as the locos all came from turnip-growing areas. This is amusing as the GER is usually referred to, even by its aficionados, as the Swedie! In 1959 this was the biggest shed in the UK. Starting its life on the Great Central, B17 61657 “Doncaster Rovers” was seen, still with its nameplates on and a group standard tender. In this connection there was at Walthamstow a nice railway society, where – in 1960 – our guest had been asked if: “Sir (Peter is a former teacher) would like to buy a Sandringham plate – I’ve got Clumber – it was £8 – my Uncle is stores manager.” The nameplates were being sold for their scrap value! Bunking Stratford without a permit wasn’t very easy, although entering on his scooter from the Leyton End with his brief-case and impersonating an English Electric engineer did seem to work for Peter – some of that builder's engines were undergoing a lot of attention at the time! The one and only rebuilt K3 – Thompson’s K5 and BR number 61863 - was seen on one of these visits. J15 65445 – “they were like vermin around the East End” - was seen next. These maids-of-all-work had some variety for the curve of their cab cut-outs varied, some had stovepipe chimneys and others tender-cabs. Other 0-6-0s included 65463, a rebuilt J19 and 65506, a J17 with small tender on an RCTS trip. Moving on to the tank engines, there were rebuilt “Gobblers” – LNER classes F4 and F5 – and “Buckjumpers”. Now the latter also engaged Peter’s eye for detail. There were some that had less spokes in the wheels than others, and there were yet another type that had mixed numbers of spokes in the wheels. There were some with steel wheels; cast-iron wheels; wheels with balance weights; Westinghouse fitted; unfitted, the variety was endless. (Since the meeting Peter has put been in touch with Lyn Brooks of the Great Eastern Railway Society who shares his fascination in all this diversity.) No. 68500 was interesting as it was sent on a long holiday to Scotland. 68522 went to Cowlairs, too, and this one came back with a modified bunker – coal rails were fitted – and a wooden step board under the bunker. On the old North British, shunters had to ride outside – they didn’t get an invitation into the cab. Some “Concrete Mixers” – L1s – appeared next; they rattled themselves to bits. A number of N7 tanks were followed by Sentinel 39 at Cambridge permanent way yard in 1963 and 15099 one of two petrol-mechanical shunters on the old Great Eastern, this one kept under a bridge at Ware. Could this be the last surviving GE “shed”? Diesels were not left out, either, because now we saw one of those “baby Deltics”. These had been banished from Hornsey until they could be made to work properly. D8402 – a North British Locomotive Type 1Bo-Bo was next on the menu – these were hated by everybody and didn’t last much longer than the Type 2 Deltics. Approaching the end of the show we went to visit “Alsatian Dog Country” and there was Departmental 33 – a small but powerful 0-4-0T with Walschaert’s valve gear – in Alfred King’s yard in the spring of 1963. An NLR 0-6-0T, no. 58857 in the docks was seen, and this brought us to the tale of our presenter and the lighters. Peter wanted to enter a photographic competition with a subject other than trains, so down to the docks did he go. Seeing a large boat nearby he ventured on to a couple of moored lighters to get a better view. The ship departed, but its wake moved the lighters into the middle of the dock. Calamity, Peter can’t swim – and he had his camera with him! After about an hour’s heaving on the mooring rope he got back to dry land and without being spotted by any of the authorities. In case you are wondering, he won the competition. The evening was rounded off with a number of views at Plaistow, but as these are from that other railway that goes to Southend, I don’t propose to expend too much time upon them. This was another fun-filled evening. We thanked Peter very much and look forward to another visit in the not-too-distant future.