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e-mail clent or e-mail service

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e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby Peter Hall » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:26 am

Probably worth starting a new topic rather than loose in 'Dead and Dying Already' viewtopic.php?f=2&t=176&start=30

The more I try and get to grips with a future e-mail strategy the bigger the hole in the office wall made by head banging against it gets!

Although I think I know the difference between an e-mail client and a e-mail service I would very much appreciate an explanation in understandable twentieth century English to be sure I understand the differences.

Below, and I will update the list as others tell me more is a list of current e-mail clients and e-mail services available to create new accounts in today.

e-mail clients

Orange.co.uk (ceases 31/5/17)
Windows Live Mail (downloads onto computer)
Outlook
Thunderbird (downloads onto computer)
Yahoo

e-mail services

Freeserve.co.uk (ceases 31/5/17)
Orange email (ceases 31/5/17)
Outlook.com
Gmail
Yahoo
Last edited by Peter Hall on Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:11 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby etr220 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:45 am

Simply put, an E-mail Service provides each user/customer/subscriber with a 'mailbox' (to some extent subdivided), having an 'email address', on their (i.e. the e-mail service's) computer(s), and sends (i.e. moves) emails 'over the internet' to the destination/addressee's 'mailbox', on the same or a different E-mail service (on that service's computer(s). Traditionally an E-mail service was part of the offering provided by your Internet Service Provider (BT or whoever), but now there any many standalone services - paid for or free (advertising supported).

An E-mail client is what the user/customer/subscriber uses to access the 'mailbox' (that their E-mail service provides) to write/compose (when sending) or read (when receiving) e-mails. It may either be a program (stand alone or integrated into the operating system) on the user/customer/subscriber's own computer (in which case e-mails are also stored there), or a web application (provided by e-mail service) giving access to the 'mailbox' directly over the internet through the user's web browser (Internet Explorer, Firefox,...). Take a look at http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-email-software.htm (note: not very up to date) for some discussion and examples, or at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_client for something more technical.

To summarize, when I send you an e-mail I write it on my e-mail client, it is then sent by my e-mail service to be received by your e-mail service, and you use your e-mail client to read it.

A cause of confusion is that all (or virtually all) e-mail services provide a web client - which is often able to access other e-mail services - without making a distinction between client and service, using the same name for both: and for many people it's an irrelevance - they just use the (web) client without any knowledge - or desire for knowledge - of how e-mails come and go.

For an interesting perspective on clients, take a look at https://litmus.com/blog/2016-email-client-market-share-infographic ...

Note: first paragraph updated to clarify a couple of points.
Last edited by etr220 on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby Peter Hall » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:39 pm

If I apply this to my current arrangements my interpretation is thus:-

Currently after I have turned my computer on and coupled all the cables I do the following with regard to emails.

Click on Windows Live Mail icon. (this opens up Windows Live Mail 2012)

Displayed are my emails which have been received using my freeserve.co.uk email address. ( peter@hall59.freeserve.co.uk ) It automatically checks when online for new ones and sends any waiting to go.

If I then click on Accounts, then properties, I have:-

Mail Account - Hall59.freeserve.co

Email Address - peter@hall59.freeserve.co.uk

Thus, am I correct in saying that my email service is Windows Live Mail 2012 and my e-mail client is freeserve.co.uk ?
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby etr220 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:11 pm

No, it's the other way round.

Freeserve is your e-mail service (or an alias of it - your 'Mail Account - Hall59.freeserve.co' is the 'mailbox' I was referring to), and Windows Live Mail the client, running on your computer, and communicating with freeserve (but no further).

I don't know Windows Live Mail, but I would expect you to be able to add another mail account, either on freeserve or another e-mail service, that you would then access in the same way, and then have to differentiate somehow (however WLM does it) from Hall59.freeserve.co.
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby Peter Hall » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:25 pm

In addition I have a second route to access the same emails as above. This is via https://web.orange.co.uk

On this I am logged in by username peter@hall59.freeserve.co.uk which is my email address and also a password.

When I press login using these details I am taken to http://email10.orange.co.uk/webmail/en_GB/welcome.html where I can also find my emails but only those received in the last two months.

If I have understood correctly having corrected my understanding then would I be correct to say orange email is the e-mail service and orange.co.uk the client?

When extermination day comes on 31st May would I be correct in thinking that the above service and client will no longer exist and the last two months emails accessed via this route will be wiped from the web as those earlier than that appear to be now?

Thanks.
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby etr220 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:16 pm

Peter Hall wrote:In addition I have a second route to access the same emails as above. This is via https://web.orange.co.uk

On this I am logged in by username peter@hall59.freeserve.co.uk which is my email address and also a password.

When I press login using these details I am taken to http://email10.orange.co.uk/webmail/en_GB/welcome.html where I can also find my emails but only those received in the last two months.

If I have understood correctly having corrected my understanding then would I be correct to say orange email is the e-mail service and orange.co.uk the client?

Correct - orange.co.uk is a web based client; and orange email is the service providing freeserve email.

When extermination day comes on 31st May would I be correct in thinking that the above service and client will no longer exist and the last two months emails accessed via this route will be wiped from the web as those earlier than that appear to be now?

Thanks.

That would be my expectation.

But emails that you have accessed via Windows Live Mail will have been downloaded to your computer, and should - depending on how things are set up there - be safely in a mailbox file (on your computer, under your control). They will not go on 'extermination day' (at least, not as part of what orange are doing), unless you have some setting set to keep WLM and orange/freeserve's e-mail storage in synch

Note that WLM may (as I said, I don't use/know it) use your (freeserve) account (as existing in its settings) in defining how it presents/structures your e-mails in its mailbox file, so I would be cautious in deleting it from WLM (but there may be a 'check automatically for emails' option to switch off to avoid getting error messages when it can't)
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby Peter Hall » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:23 am

Would I be correct in saying that when I access my emails using Live Mail as client they are downloaded onto my computer and should remain on it whilst if I use orange.co.uk as client they are not downloaded and will not exist on my computer but will be available to me by going online for as long as the client wishes to keep the?
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby etr220 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:33 pm

Peter Hall wrote:Would I be correct in saying that when I access my emails using Live Mail as client they are downloaded onto my computer and should remain on it

Yes. When you run WLM it will go and get (download) emails onto your computer, for you to read (whether or not you do so)
whilst if I use orange.co.uk as client they are not downloaded and will not exist on my computer

Yes (except temporarily as part of a web page while you read them - so not in any meaningful sense).

But if you then run WLM it will (I expect) download them (unless you have a setting 'don't download read emails')
but will be available to me by going online for as long as the client wishes to keep the?

Not sure what you're trying to say. But orange.co.uk won't of itself get rid of them.

I would suggest you try going into WLM without connecting to the internet, to see what you can see and read (what you can will be on your computer). This will simulate what happens after orange/freeserve is switched off.

Looking at your list in first post, Thunderbird is a client (equivalent to Outlook or WLM), not a service.

Some websites you might find useful:-
Listing clients: http://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-free-email-client and https://www.lifewire.com/top-free-windows-email-programs-1174215
Listing Services:https://www.lifewire.com/top-free-email-services-1171481 and http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/internet/best-free-email-services-for-2017-3613837/

Note that these are just sites I have found, and I am not endorsing any recommendation thereon: while probably ok, use at your own risk, after doing whatever other research you feel necessary.
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby Peter Hall » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:26 pm

Sorry, but every time I think I am getting to grips with emails I seem to go backwards and become more confused.

Going back a step. Accessing WLM is just like it was in the beginning. All emails can be accessed and new ones created but only sent when on line. Thus, the freeserve history will be accessible on my computer after elimination day.

I had been advised that only two freely available equivalents to WLM exist, Outlook and Thunderbird

Starting with Thunderbird. I have set up a new e-mail (Mail box) using Gmail (service) and Thunderbird (client) and this appears to work OK and have been able to add Thunderbird link to my task bar in the same way as WLM.

WLM and Thunderbird can be accessed and worked with in the same way off line.

Now for Outlook which has me banging more bricks out of the wall with my head. I am told that Outlook is an e-mail client – and Outlook.com – an e-mail service. I have set up a .... @outlook.com mail box (e-mail). However, the only way I can access it is via the internet and clicking on https://outlook.live.com/owa/?authRedirect=true which is in my favourites folder but cannot find it anywhere to pin to the taskbar so as to go straight in as with WLM and Thunderbird. I suspect 'live' is the issue but can't understand why no Outlook program is in All Programs when Thunderbird and WLM are.
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Re: e-mail clent or e-mail service

Postby etr220 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:00 am

Peter Hall wrote:Sorry, but every time I think I am getting to grips with emails I seem to go backwards and become more confused.

Going back a step. Accessing WLM is just like it was in the beginning. All emails can be accessed and new ones created but only sent when on line. Thus, the freeserve history will be accessible on my computer after elimination day.

I had been advised that only two freely available equivalents to WLM exist, Outlook and Thunderbird

There are others, but that will only add to the confusion.
Thunderbird is from Mozilla, and is free.
Outlook is from Microsoft, supplied as part of MS Office (but is not included in all MS Office Offerings), and has to be paid for. Traditionally it was a program for 'business', rather than 'home', use.
WLM is also from Microsoft, but available for free, and a development of/replacement for Outlook Express (despite the name, no relation to Outlook) as Microsoft's offering for 'home' use. (Outlook Express came as part of older versions of Windows)
Starting with Thunderbird. I have set up a new e-mail (Mail box) using Gmail (service) and Thunderbird (client) and this appears to work OK and have been able to add Thunderbird link to my task bar in the same way as WLM.

WLM and Thunderbird can be accessed and worked with in the same way off line.

Yes, they are equivalents, doing the same thing.
There is nothing to stop you adding your freeserve e-mail account to Thunderbird, or your gmail one in WLM (see https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-access-a-gmail-account-in-windows-live-mail-1172635 for how to do this).
I would suggest you decide which you prefer/want of WLM and Thunderbird, setup both/all your email accounts in it and get rid of, or at least stop using, the other.

See https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Install-Migrate-and-Update/Switching-to-Thunderbird/ta-p/14582#thunderbird:win10:tb45 (adjust the customisations to your environment) for how to move stuff from WLM to Thunderbird. Note the 'See Also' manual links.

Now for Outlook which has me banging more bricks out of the wall with my head. I am told that Outlook is an e-mail client – and Outlook.com – an e-mail service. I have set up a .... @outlook.com mail box (e-mail). However, the only way I can access it is via the internet and clicking on https://outlook.live.com/owa/?authRedirect=true which is in my favourites folder but cannot find it anywhere to pin to the taskbar so as to go straight in as with WLM and Thunderbird. I suspect 'live' is the issue but can't understand why no Outlook program is in All Programs when Thunderbird and WLM are.

If you haven't specifically bought Outlook (or an MS Office version including it) you probably don't have it installed, which is why it isn't in All Programs. Despite the similarity of names Outlook and Outlook.com are separate and distinct beasts, to be thought of as such.
You are doing the equivalent of your second method of accessing your freeserve e-mails (via orange.co.uk) that you described before, except that you are using and accessing Microsoft's outlook.com offering, rather than orange's.
You can add your outlook.com account as another in WLM or Thunderbird (or even both), to access it using them - but I suggest you choose which one you want to keep first.
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